Discussion:
Cleisthenes & the Battle of Arginusae & gay jokes
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Agamemnon
2006-03-23 02:45:01 UTC
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I'm adapting Aristophanes's "The Frogs" to a webcomic.
Who would have guessed it's full of gay jokes?
Anyone whose read the Thesmophoriazusae which also features Cleisthenes
would have guessed.
Now that I have committed to kill-filing all of you who don't know the
answer but feel the ... /urge/ to reply anyway, I'm curious about a
footnote in one of my resources. The main character served in the navy
under "Cleisthenes: a well-known homosexual in Athens, a favourite target
of Aristophanes".
He was actually a transvestite and serving under Cleisthenes is a gay joke.
Google can't seem to triangulate [Cleisthenes Arginusae homosexual]. I'm
going to take a guess that a -4th century naval commander is not the same
personage as the more-widely-cited -6th century Cleisthenes, father of
Athenian democracy.
They are not the same person.
So who was this Cleisthenes? how should I politely refer to his out-ness
(as if any classical Greeks were "in the closet")? Was he really a naval
commander, or did Aristophanes just put him there, as a gay sailor? Or is
Gay sailor and drag queen. He is mentioned in several of Aristophanes
comedies.
"The Frogs" his only naval reference? And how would I render him, in
action at the battle? Was he effeminate or butch? Enquiring minds want to
know!
You better read Thesmophoriazusae but read Helen by Euripides first or
you'll miss the references. And if you want more gay references read
symposium where you'll find more about Agathon.

Oh you haven't finished the Frogs yet have you. Agathon is in the
Thesmophoriazusae and is referred to in the Frogs too which takes place
after Thesmophoriazusae.
Thanks in advance for all SERIOUS replies.
--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
Phlip
2006-03-23 03:26:59 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Anyone whose read the Thesmophoriazusae which also features Cleisthenes
would have guessed.
That was a joke. Everyone knows the ancient Greeks preferred
non-reproductive sex over rampant overpopulation.
Post by Agamemnon
He was actually a transvestite and serving under Cleisthenes is a gay joke.
Is there any citation? One beyond Aristophanes?
Post by Agamemnon
You better read Thesmophoriazusae but read Helen by Euripides first or
you'll miss the references. And if you want more gay references read
symposium where you'll find more about Agathon.
So Euripides is the citation? (You are not being direct!)
--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
Phlip
2006-03-23 03:28:22 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Gay sailor and drag queen. He is mentioned in several of Aristophanes
comedies.
Ouch. Now I have to figure out what an ancient Greek cross-dresser would
have looked like. That should be easy to Google for.

And thanks for the visual clue!
--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
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