Discussion:
Agamemnjon- Antipater of Sidon's Poem on the Seven Wonders
(too old to reply)
TomP
2007-09-01 20:15:07 UTC
Permalink
Agamemnon claimed he was unable to find a text of this poem, yet he has
argued the details of this very poem for many days. As one should
reasonably expect, one who has never read or misremembers the poem should be
reluctant to debate its contents. Agamemnon obviously never read the poem
or misremembered the contents. Among the false claims by Agamemnon were
that Antipater included the Alexandrian lighthouse in his list of seven
wonders of the ancient world. Agamemnon also claimed there was a colossal
statue of Artemis in the Ephesian Artemisium based upon this poem by
Antipater of Sidon. I invite the reader to discover mention of either the
Alexandrian lighthouse or a colossal statue of Artemis in the English
translation of this poem from the Loeb Classical Library edition of the
"Greek Anthology" which follows:

"And I have set eyes on the wall of lofty Babylon on which is a road for
chariots,
and the statue of Zeus by the Alpheus,
and the hanging gardens,
and the colossus of the Sun,
and the huge labour of the high pyramids,
and the vast tomb of Mausolos;
but when I saw the house of Artemis that mounted to the clouds,
those other marvels lost their brilliancy,
and I said: 'Lo, apart from Olympus,
the Sun never looked on aught so grand.'"

One source for the Greek text of this poem is in "Anthologia Graeca," vol.
III, Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, MCMLVIII, page 30.
That is the source I relied upon in my discussion of this poem with
Agamemnon.

English translations of the full text of this poem can be found on these web
pages:

http://www.essential-architecture.com/MISC/WON-005.htm

http://www.archaeology.org/0001/abstracts/books.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wonders_of_the_Ancient_World

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_of_Sidon

And there are doubtless many more web sites that contain the complete test
of the poem by Antipater of Sidon.

There is an article here,
http://www.livius.org/se-sg/7wonders/seven_wonders.html, and here
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/wonders/index.html, which provide accurate
information concerning the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, including a
list of the seven wonders by Antipater of Sidon.

I noticed that many web sites credit Antipater of Sidon with the first list
of wonders of the ancient world in the second century B.C.E.. That
information is mistaken. Herodotus of Halicarnassus in the 5th century
B.C.E and Callimachus of Cyrene in the 3rd century B.C.E. wrote of wonders
long before Antipater of Sidon.

Another common mistake on many web pages is to speak of the list of wonders
by Antipater of Sidon and then include the Lighthouse at Alexandria as one
of the wonders mentioned by Antipater in his poem. That information is
false. Antipater never mentioned anything about either Alexandria or a
lighthouse anywhere in his list of wonders.
Agamemnon
2007-09-02 06:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by TomP
Agamemnon claimed he was unable to find a text of this poem, yet he has
argued the details of this very poem for many days. As one should
reasonably expect, one who has never read or misremembers the poem should
be reluctant to debate its contents. Agamemnon obviously never read the
poem or misremembered the contents. Among the false claims by Agamemnon
were that Antipater included the Alexandrian lighthouse in his list of
seven
Nope. That false claim is down to Channel 4 and other broadcasters.
Post by TomP
wonders of the ancient world. Agamemnon also claimed there was a colossal
statue of Artemis in the Ephesian Artemisium based upon this poem by
Antipater of Sidon. I invite the reader to discover mention of either the
Alexandrian lighthouse or a colossal statue of Artemis in the English
translation of this poem from the Loeb Classical Library edition of the
House of Artemis implies that Artemis lived inside and therefore the
existence of a statue.
Post by TomP
"And I have set eyes on the wall of lofty Babylon on which is a road for
chariots,
and the statue of Zeus by the Alpheus,
and the hanging gardens,
and the colossus of the Sun,
and the huge labour of the high pyramids,
and the vast tomb of Mausolos;
but when I saw the house of Artemis that mounted to the clouds,
those other marvels lost their brilliancy,
and I said: 'Lo, apart from Olympus,
the Sun never looked on aught so grand.'"
Is that it?

What about the rest of it?

How can Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of Babylon when Cyrus
was supposed to have demolished them according to Herodotus, so that the
Babylonians could never resist a siege ever again?
Post by TomP
One source for the Greek text of this poem is in "Anthologia Graeca," vol.
III, Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, MCMLVIII, page
30. That is the source I relied upon in my discussion of this poem with
Agamemnon.
English translations of the full text of this poem can be found on these
http://www.essential-architecture.com/MISC/WON-005.htm
http://www.archaeology.org/0001/abstracts/books.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wonders_of_the_Ancient_World
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_of_Sidon
And there are doubtless many more web sites that contain the complete test
of the poem by Antipater of Sidon.
There is an article here,
http://www.livius.org/se-sg/7wonders/seven_wonders.html, and here
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/wonders/index.html, which provide accurate
information concerning the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, including a
list of the seven wonders by Antipater of Sidon.
I noticed that many web sites credit Antipater of Sidon with the first
list of wonders of the ancient world in the second century B.C.E.. That
information is mistaken. Herodotus of Halicarnassus in the 5th century
B.C.E and Callimachus of Cyrene in the 3rd century B.C.E. wrote of wonders
long before Antipater of Sidon.
Another common mistake on many web pages is to speak of the list of
wonders by Antipater of Sidon and then include the Lighthouse at
Alexandria as one of the wonders mentioned by Antipater in his poem. That
information is false. Antipater never mentioned anything about either
Alexandria or a lighthouse anywhere in his list of wonders.
TomP
2007-09-06 23:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
Agamemnon claimed he was unable to find a text of this poem, yet he has
argued the details of this very poem for many days. As one should
reasonably expect, one who has never read or misremembers the poem should
be reluctant to debate its contents. Agamemnon obviously never read the
poem or misremembered the contents. Among the false claims by Agamemnon
were that Antipater included the Alexandrian lighthouse in his list of
seven
Nope. That false claim is down to Channel 4 and other broadcasters.
Would it have been too much for you to check the accuracy of your
information before you posted?
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
wonders of the ancient world. Agamemnon also claimed there was a
colossal statue of Artemis in the Ephesian Artemisium based upon this
poem by Antipater of Sidon. I invite the reader to discover mention of
either the Alexandrian lighthouse or a colossal statue of Artemis in the
English translation of this poem from the Loeb Classical Library edition
House of Artemis implies that Artemis lived inside and therefore the
existence of a statue.
There was never any question that there was a statue of Artemis in the
sanctuary. Of course there was. The issue was your claim that the statue
of Artemis in the sanctuary of the Ephesian Artemesium was comparable in
size to the statue of Zeus in the Temple of Zeus at Olympia. No such
colossal statue was reported by Antipater of Sidon or any other author from
classical antiquity whose writings have survived.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
"And I have set eyes on the wall of lofty Babylon on which is a road for
chariots,
and the statue of Zeus by the Alpheus,
and the hanging gardens,
and the colossus of the Sun,
and the huge labour of the high pyramids,
and the vast tomb of Mausolos;
but when I saw the house of Artemis that mounted to the clouds,
those other marvels lost their brilliancy,
and I said: 'Lo, apart from Olympus,
the Sun never looked on aught so grand.'"
Is that it?
If, as you claimed, you had read this poem, you would know the correct
answer to your question.
Post by Agamemnon
What about the rest of it?
There is no "rest of it" known to exist. Did you imply or explicitly state
that you had read the "Anthologia Graeca"? If you actually had read it, you
would know the answer to your own question.
Post by Agamemnon
How can Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of Babylon when
Cyrus was supposed to have demolished them according to Herodotus, so that
the Babylonians could never resist a siege ever again?
I don't know. How could Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of
Babylon?

I just challenged your notions of what this poem by Antipater of Sidon
actually contains based upon my reading of the poem in the book I cite
below. The difference between us, Agamemnon, is that I had this book I
cited below in front of me and had read several versions of this poem in
other sources I found using internet search engines and library resources
before I posted. You had not. Obviously.

By the way, you might read a bit about the Temple of Hephaestus, located
about 500 meters northwest across the ancient "agora" from the Athenian
Acropolis. You will find that this temple is nearly intact. In fact, it is
the most intact of all temples from classical antiquity. At least it was
when I visited it on May 30th, 2007. So, contrary to your assertion, not
all temples from classical antiquity are "in ruins." And other temples can
be readily reconstructed from information that has survived concerning the
building plans. One example is that notes of construction details of the
Temple of Apollo at Didyma are engraved on the interior walls of the
sanctuary.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
One source for the Greek text of this poem is in "Anthologia Graeca,"
vol. III, Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, MCMLVIII,
page 30. That is the source I relied upon in my discussion of this poem
with Agamemnon.
English translations of the full text of this poem can be found on these
http://www.essential-architecture.com/MISC/WON-005.htm
http://www.archaeology.org/0001/abstracts/books.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wonders_of_the_Ancient_World
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_of_Sidon
And there are doubtless many more web sites that contain the complete
test of the poem by Antipater of Sidon.
There is an article here,
http://www.livius.org/se-sg/7wonders/seven_wonders.html, and here
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/wonders/index.html, which provide accurate
information concerning the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, including
a list of the seven wonders by Antipater of Sidon.
I noticed that many web sites credit Antipater of Sidon with the first
list of wonders of the ancient world in the second century B.C.E.. That
information is mistaken. Herodotus of Halicarnassus in the 5th century
B.C.E and Callimachus of Cyrene in the 3rd century B.C.E. wrote of
wonders long before Antipater of Sidon.
Another common mistake on many web pages is to speak of the list of
wonders by Antipater of Sidon and then include the Lighthouse at
Alexandria as one of the wonders mentioned by Antipater in his poem.
That information is false. Antipater never mentioned anything about
either Alexandria or a lighthouse anywhere in his list of wonders.
Agamemnon
2007-09-08 19:36:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by TomP
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
Agamemnon claimed he was unable to find a text of this poem, yet he has
argued the details of this very poem for many days. As one should
reasonably expect, one who has never read or misremembers the poem should
be reluctant to debate its contents. Agamemnon obviously never read the
poem or misremembered the contents. Among the false claims by Agamemnon
were that Antipater included the Alexandrian lighthouse in his list of
seven
Nope. That false claim is down to Channel 4 and other broadcasters.
Would it have been too much for you to check the accuracy of your
information before you posted?
That was Channel 4's job. I trusted them to have done it.
Post by TomP
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
wonders of the ancient world. Agamemnon also claimed there was a
colossal statue of Artemis in the Ephesian Artemisium based upon this
poem by Antipater of Sidon. I invite the reader to discover mention of
either the Alexandrian lighthouse or a colossal statue of Artemis in the
English translation of this poem from the Loeb Classical Library edition
House of Artemis implies that Artemis lived inside and therefore the
existence of a statue.
There was never any question that there was a statue of Artemis in the
sanctuary. Of course there was. The issue was your claim that the statue
of Artemis in the sanctuary of the Ephesian Artemesium was comparable in
size to the statue of Zeus in the Temple of Zeus at Olympia. No such
No. I said Zeus was seated and if he stood up his head would have gone
through the roof. Atermis was standing.
Post by TomP
colossal statue was reported by Antipater of Sidon or any other author
from classical antiquity whose writings have survived.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
"And I have set eyes on the wall of lofty Babylon on which is a road for
chariots,
and the statue of Zeus by the Alpheus,
and the hanging gardens,
and the colossus of the Sun,
and the huge labour of the high pyramids,
and the vast tomb of Mausolos;
but when I saw the house of Artemis that mounted to the clouds,
those other marvels lost their brilliancy,
and I said: 'Lo, apart from Olympus,
the Sun never looked on aught so grand.'"
Is that it?
If, as you claimed, you had read this poem, you would know the correct
answer to your question.
Read it over a quarter of a century ago. Give nits length I must have read
the whole thing but I assumed must have been longer.
Post by TomP
Post by Agamemnon
What about the rest of it?
There is no "rest of it" known to exist. Did you imply or explicitly
state that you had read the "Anthologia Graeca"? If you actually had read
it, you would know the answer to your own question.
Post by Agamemnon
How can Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of Babylon when
Cyrus was supposed to have demolished them according to Herodotus, so that
the Babylonians could never resist a siege ever again?
I don't know. How could Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of
Babylon?
I just challenged your notions of what this poem by Antipater of Sidon
So you chose not to answer my question. How could Antipater of Sidon have
set eyes on the walls of Babylon?
Post by TomP
actually contains based upon my reading of the poem in the book I cite
below. The difference between us, Agamemnon, is that I had this book I
cited below in front of me and had read several versions of this poem in
other sources I found using internet search engines and library resources
before I posted. You had not. Obviously.
By the way, you might read a bit about the Temple of Hephaestus, located
about 500 meters northwest across the ancient "agora" from the Athenian
Acropolis. You will find that this temple is nearly intact. In fact, it is
Oh you mean the Thession. It doesn't have any central structures still
intact as far as I remember.
Post by TomP
the most intact of all temples from classical antiquity. At least it was
when I visited it on May 30th, 2007. So, contrary to your assertion, not
all temples from classical antiquity are "in ruins." And other temples
can be readily reconstructed from information that has survived concerning
the building plans. One example is that notes of construction details of
the Temple of Apollo at Didyma are engraved on the interior walls of the
sanctuary.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
One source for the Greek text of this poem is in "Anthologia Graeca,"
vol. III, Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, MCMLVIII,
page 30. That is the source I relied upon in my discussion of this poem
with Agamemnon.
English translations of the full text of this poem can be found on these
http://www.essential-architecture.com/MISC/WON-005.htm
http://www.archaeology.org/0001/abstracts/books.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wonders_of_the_Ancient_World
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_of_Sidon
And there are doubtless many more web sites that contain the complete
test of the poem by Antipater of Sidon.
There is an article here,
http://www.livius.org/se-sg/7wonders/seven_wonders.html, and here
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/wonders/index.html, which provide accurate
information concerning the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, including
a list of the seven wonders by Antipater of Sidon.
I noticed that many web sites credit Antipater of Sidon with the first
list of wonders of the ancient world in the second century B.C.E.. That
information is mistaken. Herodotus of Halicarnassus in the 5th century
B.C.E and Callimachus of Cyrene in the 3rd century B.C.E. wrote of
wonders long before Antipater of Sidon.
Another common mistake on many web pages is to speak of the list of
wonders by Antipater of Sidon and then include the Lighthouse at
Alexandria as one of the wonders mentioned by Antipater in his poem.
That information is false. Antipater never mentioned anything about
either Alexandria or a lighthouse anywhere in his list of wonders.
TomP
2007-09-09 19:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
Agamemnon claimed he was unable to find a text of this poem, yet he has
argued the details of this very poem for many days. As one should
reasonably expect, one who has never read or misremembers the poem should
be reluctant to debate its contents. Agamemnon obviously never read the
poem or misremembered the contents. Among the false claims by Agamemnon
were that Antipater included the Alexandrian lighthouse in his list of
seven
Nope. That false claim is down to Channel 4 and other broadcasters.
Would it have been too much for you to check the accuracy of your
information before you posted?
That was Channel 4's job. I trusted them to have done it.
I believe you trusted Channel 4. Your trust was obviously misplaced.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
wonders of the ancient world. Agamemnon also claimed there was a
colossal statue of Artemis in the Ephesian Artemisium based upon this
poem by Antipater of Sidon. I invite the reader to discover mention of
either the Alexandrian lighthouse or a colossal statue of Artemis in the
English translation of this poem from the Loeb Classical Library edition
House of Artemis implies that Artemis lived inside and therefore the
existence of a statue.
There was never any question that there was a statue of Artemis in the
sanctuary. Of course there was. The issue was your claim that the
statue of Artemis in the sanctuary of the Ephesian Artemesium was
comparable in size to the statue of Zeus in the Temple of Zeus at
Olympia. No such
No. I said Zeus was seated and if he stood up his head would have gone
through the roof. Atermis was standing.
And you further claimed that there was a statue of Artemis in the Ephesian
Artemisium equal in size to the statue of Zeus. Then you made some bizarre
claim that the reason the sanctuary at Ephesus was so tall was to fit the
giant statue of Artemis. Those are both false claims. The relative
dimensions of the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus are the same as those of the
Heraion at Samos, the Temple of Apollo at Didyma and indeed most of the
temples of Greek antiquity.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
colossal statue was reported by Antipater of Sidon or any other author
from classical antiquity whose writings have survived.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
"And I have set eyes on the wall of lofty Babylon on which is a road for
chariots,
and the statue of Zeus by the Alpheus,
and the hanging gardens,
and the colossus of the Sun,
and the huge labour of the high pyramids,
and the vast tomb of Mausolos;
but when I saw the house of Artemis that mounted to the clouds,
those other marvels lost their brilliancy,
and I said: 'Lo, apart from Olympus,
the Sun never looked on aught so grand.'"
Is that it?
If, as you claimed, you had read this poem, you would know the correct
answer to your question.
Read it over a quarter of a century ago. Give nits length I must have read
the whole thing but I assumed must have been longer.
So had I read it about 15 years ago when I was studying Greek. That was why
I looked at it again before I posted to insure I posted accurate
information.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
Post by Agamemnon
What about the rest of it?
There is no "rest of it" known to exist. Did you imply or explicitly
state that you had read the "Anthologia Graeca"? If you actually had
read it, you would know the answer to your own question.
Post by Agamemnon
How can Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of Babylon when
Cyrus was supposed to have demolished them according to Herodotus, so that
the Babylonians could never resist a siege ever again?
I don't know. How could Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of
Babylon?
I just challenged your notions of what this poem by Antipater of Sidon
So you chose not to answer my question.
I repeat my answer: "I don't know."
Post by Agamemnon
How could Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of Babylon?
I still don't know. I have never taken the time to study reports of the
walls of Babylon, nor have I visited the site. Have you?

Your point is irrelevant anyway.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
actually contains based upon my reading of the poem in the book I cite
below. The difference between us, Agamemnon, is that I had this book I
cited below in front of me and had read several versions of this poem in
other sources I found using internet search engines and library resources
before I posted. You had not. Obviously.
By the way, you might read a bit about the Temple of Hephaestus, located
about 500 meters northwest across the ancient "agora" from the Athenian
Acropolis. You will find that this temple is nearly intact. In fact, it is
Oh you mean the Thession.
Actually, I meant then and mean now the Temple of Hephaestus, located about
500 meters northwest across the ancient "agora" from the Athenian Acropolis.
Have you visited the site to see for yourself whether or not the "internal
structures" are still intact? By the way, what in the world do you mean by
"internal structures"? The walls of the sanctuary? They are intact.
Post by Agamemnon
It doesn't have any central structures still intact as far as I remember.
Remember? Remember what? When did you visit Athens?

Your memory is faulty again. Why not look it up, then post?
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
the most intact of all temples from classical antiquity. At least it was
when I visited it on May 30th, 2007. So, contrary to your assertion,
not all temples from classical antiquity are "in ruins." And other
temples can be readily reconstructed from information that has survived
concerning the building plans. One example is that notes of construction
details of the Temple of Apollo at Didyma are engraved on the interior
walls of the sanctuary.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
One source for the Greek text of this poem is in "Anthologia Graeca,"
vol. III, Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, MCMLVIII,
page 30. That is the source I relied upon in my discussion of this poem
with Agamemnon.
English translations of the full text of this poem can be found on these
http://www.essential-architecture.com/MISC/WON-005.htm
http://www.archaeology.org/0001/abstracts/books.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wonders_of_the_Ancient_World
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_of_Sidon
And there are doubtless many more web sites that contain the complete
test of the poem by Antipater of Sidon.
There is an article here,
http://www.livius.org/se-sg/7wonders/seven_wonders.html, and here
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/wonders/index.html, which provide accurate
information concerning the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, including
a list of the seven wonders by Antipater of Sidon.
I noticed that many web sites credit Antipater of Sidon with the first
list of wonders of the ancient world in the second century B.C.E..
That
information is mistaken. Herodotus of Halicarnassus in the 5th century
B.C.E and Callimachus of Cyrene in the 3rd century B.C.E. wrote of
wonders long before Antipater of Sidon.
Another common mistake on many web pages is to speak of the list of
wonders by Antipater of Sidon and then include the Lighthouse at
Alexandria as one of the wonders mentioned by Antipater in his poem.
That information is false. Antipater never mentioned anything about
either Alexandria or a lighthouse anywhere in his list of wonders.
Christopher Ingham
2007-09-09 23:44:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Agamemnon
It doesn't have any central structures still intact as far as I remember.
The cult images of Hephaistos and Athena disappeared in late
antiquity. The columns of the cella [=nave] were removed in the late
third century AD. [J. Travlos,_Pictorial Dictionary of Ancient
Athens_(London, 1971), s.v. "Hephaistos."]

Christopher Ingham

Christopher Ingham
2007-09-09 07:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by TomP
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
Agamemnon claimed he was unable to find a text of this poem, yet he has
argued the details of this very poem for many days. As one should
reasonably expect, one who has never read or misremembers the poem should
be reluctant to debate its contents. Agamemnon obviously never read the
poem or misremembered the contents. Among the false claims by Agamemnon
were that Antipater included the Alexandrian lighthouse in his list of
seven
Nope. That false claim is down to Channel 4 and other broadcasters.
Would it have been too much for you to check the accuracy of your
information before you posted?
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
wonders of the ancient world. Agamemnon also claimed there was a
colossal statue of Artemis in the Ephesian Artemisium based upon this
poem by Antipater of Sidon. I invite the reader to discover mention of
either the Alexandrian lighthouse or a colossal statue of Artemis in the
English translation of this poem from the Loeb Classical Library edition
House of Artemis implies that Artemis lived inside and therefore the
existence of a statue.
There was never any question that there was a statue of Artemis in the
sanctuary. Of course there was. The issue was your claim that the statue
of Artemis in the sanctuary of the Ephesian Artemesium was comparable in
size to the statue of Zeus in the Temple of Zeus at Olympia. No such
colossal statue was reported by Antipater of Sidon or any other author from
classical antiquity whose writings have survived.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
"And I have set eyes on the wall of lofty Babylon on which is a road for
chariots,
and the statue of Zeus by the Alpheus,
and the hanging gardens,
and the colossus of the Sun,
and the huge labour of the high pyramids,
and the vast tomb of Mausolos;
but when I saw the house of Artemis that mounted to the clouds,
those other marvels lost their brilliancy,
and I said: 'Lo, apart from Olympus,
the Sun never looked on aught so grand.'"
Is that it?
If, as you claimed, you had read this poem, you would know the correct
answer to your question.
Post by Agamemnon
What about the rest of it?
There is no "rest of it" known to exist. Did you imply or explicitly state
that you had read the "Anthologia Graeca"? If you actually had read it, you
would know the answer to your own question.
Post by Agamemnon
How can Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of Babylon when
Cyrus was supposed to have demolished them according to Herodotus, so that
the Babylonians could never resist a siege ever again?
I don't know. How could Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of
Babylon?
I just challenged your notions of what this poem by Antipater of Sidon
actually contains based upon my reading of the poem in the book I cite
below. The difference between us, Agamemnon, is that I had this book I
cited below in front of me and had read several versions of this poem in
other sources I found using internet search engines and library resources
before I posted. You had not. Obviously.
By the way, you might read a bit about the Temple of Hephaestus, located
about 500 meters northwest across the ancient "agora" from the Athenian
Acropolis. You will find that this temple is nearly intact. In fact, it is
the most intact of all temples from classical antiquity. At least it was
when I visited it on May 30th, 2007. So, contrary to your assertion, not
all temples from classical antiquity are "in ruins." And other temples can
be readily reconstructed from information that has survived concerning the
building plans. One example is that notes of construction details of the
Temple of Apollo at Didyma are engraved on the interior walls of the
sanctuary.
Post by Agamemnon
Post by TomP
One source for the Greek text of this poem is in "Anthologia Graeca,"
vol. III, Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, MCMLVIII,
page 30. That is the source I relied upon in my discussion of this poem
with Agamemnon.
English translations of the full text of this poem can be found on these
http://www.essential-architecture.com/MISC/WON-005.htm
http://www.archaeology.org/0001/abstracts/books.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wonders_of_the_Ancient_World
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_of_Sidon
And there are doubtless many more web sites that contain the complete
test of the poem by Antipater of Sidon.
There is an article here,
http://www.livius.org/se-sg/7wonders/seven_wonders.html, and here
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/wonders/index.html, which provide accurate
information concerning the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, including
a list of the seven wonders by Antipater of Sidon.
I noticed that many web sites credit Antipater of Sidon with the first
list of wonders of the ancient world in the second century B.C.E.. That
information is mistaken. Herodotus of Halicarnassus in the 5th century
B.C.E and Callimachus of Cyrene in the 3rd century B.C.E. wrote of
wonders long before Antipater of Sidon.
Another common mistake on many web pages is to speak of the list of
wonders by Antipater of Sidon and then include the Lighthouse at
Alexandria as one of the wonders mentioned by Antipater in his poem.
That information is false. Antipater never mentioned anything about
either Alexandria or a lighthouse anywhere in his list of wonders.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Babylon was continuously inhabited down to the time of the Arab
invasions of the seventh century. It remained an important city
during the Seleucid era (330 BC-126 BC) and later, so we must assume
it underwent restorations and renovations (much like any living city).

The Hepaisteion in Athens (popularly known as the "Theseion," a
misnomer resulting from its misattribution by early archaeologists) is
indeed the best-preserved temple of the classical world, although many
dozen more are also nearly intact (e.g., the Pantheon in Rome); this
fact owing in almost every case to their having been converted into
Christian churches in the late antique/early medieval period.

The canon of the Seven Wonders (originally_theamata_["sights"]) was
not fixed until the Renaissance. Of the many lists put forth by
ancient authors, that of Antipater of Sidon's (1st c BC) is closest to
the modern.

[_OCD_, 3rd rev. ed. (2003; s.v. "Babylon"); J. M. Camp,_The Athenian
Agora_(London, 1986), 82-4; P. A. Clayton and M. J. Price, eds.,
introduction to_The Seven Wonders of the Ancient World_(New York,
1988), 4-12.

Christopher Ingham]
zarbiface
2007-09-09 09:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Agamemnon
Is that it?
What about the rest of it?
How can Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of Babylon when Cyrus
was supposed to have demolished them according to Herodotus, so that the
Babylonians could never resist a siege ever again?
folks, you do realise that Aggy is a time wasting troll don't you?
Agamemnon
2007-09-09 15:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by zarbiface
Post by Agamemnon
Is that it?
What about the rest of it?
How can Antipater of Sidon have set eyes on the walls of Babylon when Cyrus
was supposed to have demolished them according to Herodotus, so that the
Babylonians could never resist a siege ever again?
folks, you do realise that Aggy is a time wasting troll don't you?
What are you doing stalking me and invading soc.history.ancient you stupid
girly lesbian. Go back to rec.arts.drwho you troll.
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